Conduits need a new endgame

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blueleds
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:58 pm

Conduits need a new endgame

Post by blueleds »

TLDR: It's my opinion that the current endgame of Conduits is uninteresting and does little to nothing to change the play experience of the average Conduit player, particularly when compared to those that have been added for the other classes who have them at the moment. I think moving away from Pocket Spaces and towards temporarily granting new capabilities based on the Conduit's skills and actions can both improve this situation and make Conduits a more interesting class overall.


As endgames have been introduced, the common threads I've noticed are that they increase the power or capability of that class and often make them more interesting to play. Dark Oppressors have the added gameplay objective of taking over or defending territory and receive buffs to their skills that increase their power. Wizards can fight for a seat on the Council of Keys to both obtain benefits available exclusively to council members and vote on the buffs or new abilities granted to all Archmages daily. Revenants who wish to obtain the Revelation of Maevel must hunt down every T3 class to gain access to their choice of a number of buffs and the ability to form pack-like bonds by conditionally sharing their Dark Enlightenment. These endgames are flavorful, nicely balanced buffs to their class, and fun.

In my opinion, Pocket Spaces are none of the above.

There is nothing new or interesting added to Conduit gameplay as part of obtaining access to the endgame. The conduit cleaves portals like always, opens wormholes as usual, or travels through permanent portals as usual. On occasion I've not even noticed I received a planar device until looking at my inventory days after the fact. There's no quest or objective involved like the other end games. Heck, even the lore seems to emphasize how boring the experience is with a message that, to me at least, translates to "by the way this device fell into your pocket".

There is nothing unique or interesting added to Conduit gameplay by the existence of Pocket Spaces. Once a planar device is used, anyone can access the pocket space. As far as I know the only interesting non-lore aspect of the Spaces is that the tiles can be flipped by infusion, which is even less relevant to Conduits as they don't have access to Greater Infusion and are therefore less capable of shaping the Spaces to their purposes. The changing location of the Pocket Space entrances does mean Conduits with Cleave Portal have an easier time of returning but are any of the Pocket Spaces even worth a Mark? Maybe Ossuary until your Lore grind is finished but the rest seem to merit a visit for their exploration badge and then immediate dismissal from memory.

Pocket Spaces add no meaningful improvement to the power or capability of Conduits. The exploration badge in each Space can be obtained by any class. Any class can take advantage of the unique tiles to grind Lore or search for new items. The only way I can think of that Pocket Spaces existing benefits Conduits and only Conduits is in allowing them to create a portal on any tile which they can then cleave to create a portal to a more interesting place they have marked (assuming there is not another permanent portal nearby they can cleave for a cheaper trip and they happen to have a planar device in their pocket). This point hardly merits acknowledgement when compared to the benefits other classes get from their endgames.

I suggest that planar devices start falling into the pockets of every class or disappear entirely and Conduits get a new experience that deserves being called an endgame.

I was very excited by the bullet point in the patch notes introducing pocket spaces that mentioned Conduits would start to "turn up ancient knowledge and power of that which was once forgotten" and I think the new Conduit endgame should take that idea much further than the current one does. A Dark Oppressor rules over a domain, a Revenant hunts in the tradition of Maeval and the rest of their pack, a Wizard bends the laws of magic. A Conduit explores, and in my opinion the exploration of the inner workings of the Nexus itself should lead to more interesting (and less literal) destinations than a few disconnected collections of tiles. Their exploration should lead to powers and feats no other class is capable of, ancient knowledge and forgotten powers temporarily rediscovered.

A Conduit that spends their time repairing and creating items should receive a flash of inspiration that allows them to temporarily "accomplish works of machinery and craftsmanship with an ease that would be impossible for mortals" and repair or create weapons or armor one or more steps past pristine condition. A Conduit that spends their time enchanting should "crack the inner workings of the Nexus itself" and gain access to unique enchantment capabilities until this new knowledge slips from their mind. Conduits that spend their time cleaving portals or opening wormholes should learn “the ebb and flow of Nexal energies” said pathways use and chart a course that imbues travelers with buffs or provide some other interesting benefit until the flow shifts enough that this mastery becomes useless. Generally, a Conduit should, to a limited degree and/or for a limited time, become better at whatever field they’re exploring with their skills.
lunalu
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:27 am

Re: Conduits need a new endgame

Post by lunalu »

+1
I really appreciate the work into pocket spaces but it does seem less endgamey than revs/dos. I even had a pocket space time out in my inv last week because I saw it, remembered everyone had the badge and then promptly forgot about it! I like the suggestion here as I do think an endgame should have some benefit to the class it is for. (I will prob add more to this at some point but at 2am this is all you get from me haha!)
Poinf
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:57 am

Re: Conduits need a new endgame

Post by Poinf »

I'll throw in my two cents as someone with a few conduits (Calcite, Iridium (RIP)) that messed around with pocket space for a long while.

When the update first dropped, I went hard into trying to figure out how to get the devices, what the mechanics of the planes were, etc. Once things were figured out, badges dropped not long after, and then infusion got added to them.

Exploration badges are nice, obviously, and finding out what tiles flipped into with different infusion drove me to keep infusing pocket space for a few months for the sake of knowledge, but at this point, they feel like just another part of the Nexus, rather then a Big Thing for conduits like Overlords or Maeval lore does for DOs and Revs.

When I get a device, unless it's Ossuary, I know nobody is going to be interested in where I place it unless they're still hunting for badges.

The most fun I've had with the devices past the inital exploration phases after each update was early on, when I had placed a portal inside of my faction's SH, we got raided and some of the raiders piled into the portal while I moved the portal to Middle of Nowhere, Purg.

(Sidenote: It makes me mildly bothered that NCs can teleport between pocket spaces and Conduits have to cleave portals the hard way. Let me wisp between them please!)

I agree that they're underwhelming for the Conduit themselves, and I like the idea of "flashes of inspiration" for the conduit when they do typical conduit things.
My only concern would be that it might pigeonhole Conduit further into being a logistics/portalbot, while I feel the other endgames do well at supplementing other playstyles for those classes.



tl;dr: +1, pocket space feels mundane, would like conduit to get more personal boosts
blueleds
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:58 pm

Re: Conduits need a new endgame

Post by blueleds »

Poinf wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:36 am I agree that they're underwhelming for the Conduit themselves, and I like the idea of "flashes of inspiration" for the conduit when they do typical conduit things.
My only concern would be that it might pigeonhole Conduit further into being a logistics/portalbot, while I feel the other endgames do well at supplementing other playstyles for those classes.
I'd actually really like ideas for what the flashes of inspiration might do for the other skills like target seeker, energy flare, and wisp form. My conduit is mostly focused on logistics so I mentioned those examples but I don't think the power increase/new capabilities should be limited to just those skills.
Stretch
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:01 am

Re: Conduits need a new endgame

Post by Stretch »

Allow conduits to set traps in pocket space portals that have some chance of dumping people into the void instead of porting them… like font traps, but even more hilarious…
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Liche
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:13 am

Re: Conduits need a new endgame

Post by Liche »

While I think it might be more befitting a Wizard, I wouldn't be against Conduits having the ability to create new pockets of pocket space. Perhaps even better, let Conduits create portals to former Nexus maps (Nifleheim, anyone?) Maybe even more maybe, a Conduit creates a pocket space that is a small slice of a former Nexus map (grab an 8- 12 tiles wide by 8- 12 tiles high section of a map).

How long does this slice last? Can it be sustained (use Infusion for this?)? This could be some nice end game material.
Alkasyn
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:49 pm

Re: Conduits need a new endgame

Post by Alkasyn »

I am in the same boat. I keep getting the Erebus portal every other day when I act as a portalbot and it's really more annoying than it is fun (I got to set it up somewhere, and no one cares about it anymore).

I wish we had something fun, like the Revenants do.
Poinf
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:57 am

Re: Conduits need a new endgame

Post by Poinf »

There's been some discussion in discord a few days ago about this topic, so I figured I'd throw some more thoughts out.

I really do love the idea of pocket space as a Conduit Thing, but I want more reason to actually go there and for other people to care about where they've been placed (besides Ossuary).

For example, if each pocket space had a unique benefit or selling point, like increased AP/MP regen while in them, or if Homestead was an amazing spot to search for food, or Bastion having magical items from previous breaths that you could search up, like the Poison Pistol or the old throwing items from NW.
Maybe being in a pocket space gives the Conduit DOverlord esque bonuses and discounts, with further bonuses for being the one who placed the portal device?

Something to encourage territory warring over control of the pockets would be interesting.
comradequestion
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:49 pm

Re: Conduits need a new endgame

Post by comradequestion »

Liche wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:52 am While I think it might be more befitting a Wizard, I wouldn't be against Conduits having the ability to create new pockets of pocket space. Perhaps even better, let Conduits create portals to former Nexus maps (Nifleheim, anyone?) Maybe even more maybe, a Conduit creates a pocket space that is a small slice of a former Nexus map (grab an 8- 12 tiles wide by 8- 12 tiles high section of a map).

How long does this slice last? Can it be sustained (use Infusion for this?)? This could be some nice end game material.
Oh god yes bring back il pozzo del deserto.
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